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Thread: Can you Overdo a View Template?

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    Junior Member HelmetFire's Avatar
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    Can you Overdo a View Template?

    Ladies & Gentlemen,

    I have set up our project template to include view templates for modeling and for annotation where the modeling views would be moved to user specific folders and the annotation views are on sheets.

    When it comes to categories in view templates is it better to...

    • Turn off all the categories that should never be visible in that type of view
    • Have the majority of the categories visible and let the user make the decision to turn them off as they become populated and possibly a nuisance.


    Should view templates be automatically applied to new views?

    I'm thinking of users with less experience and not wanting to frustrate them with too much customization. But I know early on for me seeing anything in everything whenever I opened a view was frustrating in itself.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmetFire View Post
    Ladies & Gentlemen,

    I have set up our project template to include view templates for modeling and for annotation where the modeling views would be moved to user specific folders and the annotation views are on sheets.

    When it comes to categories in view templates is it better to...

    • Turn off all the categories that should never be visible in that type of view
    • Have the majority of the categories visible and let the user make the decision to turn them off as they become populated and possibly a nuisance.


    Should view templates be automatically applied to new views?

    I'm thinking of users with less experience and not wanting to frustrate them with too much customization. But I know early on for me seeing anything in everything whenever I opened a view was frustrating in itself.

    Thanks.
    filters, unchecked in the view templates then it's easy to flip stuff on and off again

    IMO, yes

    Personally I like to see everything up front then have an easy way to pare it down to what I'm working on = filters

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    In my template:

    1. There is no such thing as "Working" versus "Annotation" views, except for some Coordination views which show things in special ways. I recommend people work right in the Documentation views. Its also not Users Choice, regarding whats visible. Its an office standard, at least as far as the documentation views go. If they want to change it, there had better be a conversation and a reasonable explanation for why. "Because i dont like it" isnt a reasonable explanation.

    2. Everything is visible all of the time, unless there is a reason we dont want something to show in documentation (like Equipment not showing on a slab edge plan, or furniture not showing on a normal floor plan). We dont turn off "Casework" on the Roof Plan, because we dont have to. It shows correctly already. Other things that are off for a reason (consultants levels and grids (unless in a coord view), reference planes, etc) are off already.

    3. ALL views made in my template automatically have a view template applied to them, even the coordination view types.
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    Question about not using working views:

    If you don't have working views, how do you keep your visibility resetting when multiple users open the same views and sync? On large projects you may have multiple people in the same level / floor plan. Also, if we don't have a classification for working sections, then this means that all working sections, which often need to be kept because of ongoing coordination, would show up in your plot views. This would end up cluttering your views.

    Also there are things like reference planes (which accumulate over time) and markup detail lines (used to keep track of temporary sketches), that would not want to be visible in your plot views. I like working views because it keeps people from messing with the settings of a plot view, so that it can be plotted at a moment's notice, without someone forgetting to turn something back on.

    Temporary view properties would help with this, but the issue is that the team has distributed design responsibilities which prompts them to create specific working views for their tasks. It is a pain for them to have to reset this every time.
    Last edited by ralvarez1976; January 13th, 2017 at 11:13 PM.
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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralvarez1976 View Post
    Question about not using working views:

    If you don't have working views, how do you keep your visibility resetting when multiple users open the same views and sync? On large projects you may have multiple people in the same level / floor plan.
    Ive worked on extrmeely large projects. Why are things *resetting?* Why are things changing at all, when they sync? Unless you mean temporary changes to the view made in the temporary mode. And in that case, who cares? And, there is a difference between people temporarily creating working views to do a couple of tasks, then to delete the view, versus people saying "IM ONLY HANGING OUT IN AARONS VIEWS BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT. WOOOO!" You know what that leads to? Ugly drawings. Because no one is looking at them.

    Also, if we don't have a classification for working sections, then this means that all working sections, which often need to be kept because of ongoing coordination, would show up in your plot views. This would end up cluttering your views.
    Only if you want to see them. We have a Filter for non-sheeted views. If the filter is on, you can see them all. If the Filter is off, you dont see anything but the Documentation Views. Besides, we DO have Coordination Sections, and those dont show in the documentation views.

    Also there are things like reference planes (which accumulate over time)
    Off in my view templates, for most views except Documentation. Why would i keep those on?

    and markup detail lines (used to keep track of temporary sketches), that would not want to be visible in your plot views.
    Uhhh, not here. Why would i have things sketched out in detail lines that remained in the model for more than a couple of minutes?

    I like working views because it keeps people from messing with the settings of a plot view, so that it can be plotted at a moment's notice, without someone forgetting to turn something back on.

    Temporary view properties would help with this, but the issue is that the team has distributed design responsibilities which prompts them to create specific working views for their tasks. It is a pain for them to have to reset this every time.
    Then keep your working views. My point is you dont NEED them. Ive done large projects, with divided responsibilities. You CAN have working views, but you dont NEED them.
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    If two people are in the same view, and one of them changes visibility settings and sync, the next time another person in the same view syncs they will see the view changes made by the other person. As people want to hide or override certain visibility settings to make it easier to work on something, it would be annoying to go back and forth overriding each other's view settings. I know temporary view properties attempts to solve this, but the problem is when someone has specific design scope assigned and are doing the same thing everyday, repeating the same configuration over and over gets old. You could also assign a personal view template temporarily, which some people can manage, but frankly for most people managing view templates is way over their heads or what they are willing to spend time on. We have enough issues with them changing view templates they are not supposed to change.

    Yes, filters can solve the coordination / working views issue. But then you have to accept your team messing with your view templates, as opposed to the subset of the team you trust with that task. If everyone is in the view templates, you will never have control of your graphics, and stuff will be all over the place without accountability. Then you will really have ugly drawings.

    Reference planes are on in work and coordination views because they memorialize where a wall or slab edge needs to be restored to when it inevitably moves when someone makes a mistake and erases it in error. This is the same reason people use locked detail lines in their own views. When someone moves or deletes something (and no one takes responsibility) they can point to their original intent. This happens often on (for example) a large 1.5 million sf project with 20 people in the architectural model.

    My point about working views is you need them for effective management, to keep people from stepping on each other's toes, and in order to avoid permissions issues while everyone tries to edit the same view templates. This is also made worse when the geometry is a little more complicated, so splitting the enclosure and interiors is more trouble than its worth due to cleanup issues and duplicated family definitions across links, so you can't protect parts of the building by splitting it up into multiple files.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Yeah, i dont know what to tell you, other than we fundamentally disagree on a lot of things. Teams should be in view templates, and they should know how they work. You use works like *never* and *always*, but those things just arent true all of the time. Ive had offices i set up have GREAT looking drawings, you dont NEED working views to make good looking drawings a possibility.

    If you like them? Keep using them! Rock on!

    Ref planes and locked detail lines for outlining the shape of the building, in case things *move...* Im sorry, thats terrible. If you are happy with it, more power to you. Id rather train the staff about what they are accidentally moving, and get them to not do it. I would go ballistic if i found that crap in one of my models.

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    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Ref planes and locked detail lines for outlining the shape of the building, in case things *move...* Im sorry, thats terrible. If you are happy with it, more power to you. Id rather train the staff about what they are accidentally moving, and get them to not do it. I would go ballistic if i found that crap in one of my models.
    I've resorted to these sort of workflows. Things move, the design gets fubar, and nobody admits/remembers/know that they did the deed. Without these helpers we might have trouble getting the design back to where it should/is supposed to be. I could maybe go through the logs to figure it out but, in the end, that's more effort than I care to give to the subject. Keeping the regulating lines (to make the exercise sound more architectural) as a group/design option is good practice, IMO. I still tell people what happened and encourage them to pay closer attention but, no matter how much I say, it still happens... hell, I've done it a few times by mistake! The goal is to make good architecture that's well coordinated. If a set of regulating lines helps acheive that, I'm all for it... and, so far, my teams are as well.

    I like working views, most in my office don't... but then they get frustrated and blame Revit when the prints don't look right because someone changed/removed the VT. I swear, sometimes it's like talking to a brick wall. VTs are your friend. So are Filters. But not Worksets.

    Nobody's "right" or "wrong" here... just different takes on the same challenge. Like you said Aaron, words like "never" and "always" are never used well, and always lead to problems later.
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    Well, I have trained my users with how view templates work, and how not to accidentally move or delete things. Guess what? Some users get it, some don't, and some don't care. Because if this **** still happens, and when it does, no one wants to step up and take responsibility and stuff still needs to get fixed.

    This is made worse when management throws in inexperienced staff (in architecture, in Revit or both) right before a deadline, which does not allow for proper training while the train is moving. At that point you have to do what you can to avoid problems, allowing everyone else to remain productive and working towards the deadline.

    We plan to do better on the next project, and it goes better with more experienced staff, but its never perfect. I get what you are saying but in my experience unless you have a very firm control over the production team, this situation just does not come close to your ideal scenario.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    :shrugs: Okay. You call it an *ideal scenario* like I don't and haven't worked on real projects and had great results.

    But that's cool. You asked how I don't use or mandate working views. The answer to that question is my endorsed workflows don't look like yours. Whether you agree with those workflows or not is a separate discussion. Here? People don't have to use working views. We don't model and trace everything, either. That's the answer you asked for earlier.
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