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Thread: New Revit User - Spatial Ideas

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    Lightbulb New Revit User - Spatial Ideas

    Hi everyone,

    I started using Revit recently. It’s pretty straightforward but I’d like to perform some tasks in a more automated way.

    I will be working on mid-sized to large multipurpose buildings and I need to meet a number of functional building requirements – number of toilets per floor, number of parking spaces, number of offices, etc.

    Apart from Rooms Schedule in Revit, what other alternatives do I have for performing (some of) these checks?

    I deeply appreciate your help!

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    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    All of those around here are based on areas so a room schedule or, to be more specific as to where the areas are calculated, an area plan. Add some additional parameter for toilets per area (for example) and some simple math in your schedule and you're all set. I would recommend making the element per area a key schedule so you only need edit it one place.

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    Thanks for the feedback GMcDowellJR ! I was wondering is there a tool you use to short-cut this for example like the Room Schedule App ?

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    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    nope... made my own

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    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    Code Analysis in Revit Architecture

    Pretty good walk-through on how to set them up.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I can tell you what ive learned from a decade of setting up code plans / life safety plans / code compliance plans / area+occupant calculations in Revit... And that is: Everyone is pretty okay with having the calculations be wrong. Including your code reviewer, LOL.

    If you follow the math correctly (at least, according to IBC (any version), you cannot correctly calculate number of occupants with a Room OR an Area Schedule. Revit will not do it correctly with an area schedule, unless you "trick it" and make dummy areas so that there is only ONE area per Occupancy Type. Putting in all of the values for area per occupant, and then have calculated values come up with occupants and egress and plumbing requires, is *mostly* right. But it varies per occupancy type, and certain occupancy types will be VERY VERY VERY wrong.

    You need a SINGLE COMBINED TOTAL for all spaces of a particular occupancy classification, and you need to put THAT number in to the code calc. Revit schedules WILL NOT do that, even when they appear to by only showing totals. The resulting calculations can vary from *pretty close* to *way off.*

    The ONLY two ways to do it correctly in revit are:

    1a. Use Rooms or Areas to calculate the correct total SF per occupancy type
    1b. Make a new area scheme that has dummy areas (one per Occ type) and use those for the live occupancy schedule

    2a. Use Rooms or Areas to calculate the correct total SF per occupancy type
    2b. Use an unconnected Family 9A GM or something else) that you input the values from 2a, and it does that math for you.

    I now lean towards doing whats in method 2, after verifying that revit cant get all of the math correctly. Im sure Dynamo can do it correctly, if you set up all of your code calcs as a Definition.
    cganiere likes this.

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    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    Some good discussion here as well: http://www.revitforum.org/architectu...ety-revit.html

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    Thought I'll share my Occ schedules. I have both Area & Room Schedules/Keys mirroring settings with each other. When Leasing Areas (BOMA stnds) are involved with a Client it's a pain having to sketch out all the Area Boundaries. Otherwise for typical City submissions the Room schedules (Net Areas) are just fine with them. I've used the Area Occ schedule to maintain Master Lease Plans for my Aviation projects successfully; several extra parameters needed just for sorting/filtering, lol. I've put all schedules on one Sheet with added info. Enjoy.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1lh6dgiyva...dules.rvt?dl=0

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    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    I can tell you what ive learned from a decade of setting up code plans / life safety plans / code compliance plans / area+occupant calculations in Revit... And that is: Everyone is pretty okay with having the calculations be wrong. Including your code reviewer, LOL.
    There's right and there's right enough.

    For example, technically (or at least in my reading), in a area use that is defined as net you can exclude anything built where a person can't stand (columns, casework, etc.). Practically, unless you're over on a count that would increase the number of exits, the width of an exit, etc. by only a few people, it's not going to make any difference to whether the building meets code or not. If anything you're exceeding code using Areas in Revit and, unless it costs more in terms of extra doors, plumbing fixtures, etc., how can that be a bad thing.

    The only part of the code plans that I really think have to be done using a dummy schedule (faking it) is plumbing counts. Here if you don't roundup at the end of the calcs you'll show more fixtures than you really need.

    Technically you're correct but that seems more trouble than it's worth considering the payoff... unless you're riding the edge and need the extra precision.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    They arent wrong because of how Revit defines the areas that get included and excluded, there are a ton of ways around that.

    I *am* talking about the plumbing counts, though. Im not concerned with the rounding, since i will show that we required 6.7 toilets, and then the schedule of "provided fixtures" will obviously show 7 or more, since i havent given the staff a way to place half a toilet, LOL.

    But, in the Business occupancy, they are wrong by an insane amount. Business occupancy sets the number of Plumbing Fixtures as a Constant based on occupancy "shelves" (5 for the first 200, 7 for the first 300, or something... Im not at the office, so i have no code books here) plus a variable times SF for the amount over. There isnt an "automated" way to have a schedule do that, since the constant has to be assigned based on the total. And you cant make the values such that each room gets a portion of the constant, since each room isnt aware of the total SF of the occupancy classification. You can do it if you dont mind copying the total SF values back in to another Shared Parameter, that THEN performs calculations, but that goes back to what i said about step 1b or 2b.

    Im not saying you cant do it in Revit. Im saying its not physically possible to do it in a Room OR an Area schedule, without at least manually running back through the schedule to update totals in to a blank SP field, OR using other families to do the Occ calcs.

    Can it get *right enough* to pass? Absolutely, especially if you dont do a lot of mixed use, or office space. But make no mistake about it: For an office building, its not off by a little. Its off by a factor of almost 2, depending on the number of rooms in the building.
    uaifestival likes this.

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