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Thread: SFL, FFL, floors, walls and doors

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    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    SFL, FFL, floors, walls and doors

    We have a restaurant fitout in an existing space. I have modelled the existing conditions showing slabs at the Structural Floor Level.
    We are putting a timber floor over the top so I created a new Finished Floor Level at +30mm and placed my floors on that. Is this the best method?

    Our stud walls sit on the slab - the Structural Floor Level.
    My problem is how to model and where to put the doors. If I place the doors on the Structural level I need to increase their height by 30mm and stop the frame at +30. If I place the doors on the Finished level I can't get the Opening Cut object to cut the wall right down to the Structural level.
    What is the best practice here please?

    Thanking you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tim West's Avatar
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    You can extend the opening in your door family below the bottom level reference, and control it with a parameter.

    That way you can place the doors at the FFL and have the opening extension 30mm below.

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    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    Thanks Tim.
    My testing showed that the bottom of the Opening Cut always defined the placement level of the door. In other words, it ignored the Ground Floor Level. Wherever I placed the bottom of my Opening Cut (with or without a reference plane, with or without a parameter, and whether it was above or below the Ground Floor Level), that was where the door was placed. Does anyone else get this behaviour?

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    Forum Addict elton williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyB View Post
    Thanks Tim.
    My testing showed that the bottom of the Opening Cut always defined the placement level of the door. In other words, it ignored the Ground Floor Level. Wherever I placed the bottom of my Opening Cut (with or without a reference plane, with or without a parameter, and whether it was above or below the Ground Floor Level), that was where the door was placed. Does anyone else get this behaviour?
    Make sure the reference level in your door family is set to 'defines origin'. Create a new horizontal reference plane below it as Tim said and attach a dimension, make a parameter to control it, then edit the opening profile and align/lock the bottom profile line to your new reference line.

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    Member anthonyB's Avatar
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    I cannot see where to define the Level as Defines Origin, but I can set the Reference Plane on that level to be Defines Origin. Now it works. Simple. Thank you very much.

    And I'll assume that this is the best method to use.

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    Forum Addict elton williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyB View Post
    I cannot see where to define the Level as Defines Origin, but I can set the Reference Plane on that level to be Defines Origin.
    Terminology LOL. Glad you got it sorted.
    anthonyB likes this.

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    Moderator cellophane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyB View Post
    We have a restaurant fitout in an existing space. I have modelled the existing conditions showing slabs at the Structural Floor Level.
    We are putting a timber floor over the top so I created a new Finished Floor Level at +30mm and placed my floors on that. Is this the best method?

    Our stud walls sit on the slab - the Structural Floor Level.
    My problem is how to model and where to put the doors. If I place the doors on the Structural level I need to increase their height by 30mm and stop the frame at +30. If I place the doors on the Finished level I can't get the Opening Cut object to cut the wall right down to the Structural level.
    What is the best practice here please?

    Thanking you.
    I've found it best (and it's been discussed on the forums) to keep levels to structural floors and roof bearings (usually.) If you have a lot of levels you run into issues like you found and it becomes difficult to manage. When you place your finish floor place it on the SFL and add an offset in the properties.

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    Forum Addict elton williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellophane View Post
    I've found it best (and it's been discussed on the forums) to keep levels to structural floors and roof bearings (usually.) If you have a lot of levels you run into issues like you found and it becomes difficult to manage. When you place your finish floor place it on the SFL and add an offset in the properties.
    Thats how we do our finish floors, and also place the door on SFL, give it a +offset then use the opening to cut the wall back down to SFL. Thinking about it now I could use a formula like 'door offset=lower opening offset' to make it adjust automatically, but it's friday night so it'll have to wait.
    Last edited by elton williams; September 19th, 2014 at 01:53 PM.

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    Senior Member Ning Zhou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellophane View Post
    I've found it best (and it's been discussed on the forums) to keep levels to structural floors and roof bearings (usually.)
    SFL is best? that's a long standing issue and don't really know which is the best, for instance, room will always default to level whether it's FFL or SFL, and ...

    any summary or conclusion?

  10. #10
    Forum Addict elton williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ning Zhou View Post
    SFL is best? that's a long standing issue and don't really know which is the best, for instance, room will always default to level whether it's FFL or SFL, and ...

    any summary or conclusion?
    Architects typically set their levels from FFL, but even though I work in arch in my experience working more on the manufacturing and construction shop drawings side of things, SFL works better. Courses for horses I suppose. AFAIK rooms will be set to whatever the level is of the working view. Finish floors can simply have the 'room bounding' value turned off, but really, does a 2 or 5mm floor thickness really make that much difference to the volume of an average room?

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