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Thread: joining concrete beams and floors

  1. #1
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    joining concrete beams and floors

    Hi everyone.. i have just started using Revit 2013 and loving it so far however i have a problem regarding joining concrete beams and floors. Now i have searched everywhere in this forum and on the net but couldn't find a good enough solution to it. i created a concrete beam and a floor sandwich but when i join the two everything works fine except the plaster layer underneath the floor cuts into the concrete beam as in the attached images. now i looked in to the options of modeling each of the layers seperate however that approach takes all the advantages of using one floor panel and having different layers inside it(scheduling, editing etc.) i also tried using create parts tool to adjust each layer accordingly. however after creating the parts revit doesn't allow joining these part to anything else so this approach leaves a line between the concrete floor and beam when there shouldn't be. i don't want to use line overrides in the section views either that also takes away the advantage of creating a section whenever and wherever you need.
    i also tries using structural walls instead of beams and found out that it works however i am not sure if this approach will have other consequences for structural analysis later.the first image shows how the revit joins them together and the second image shows what I am trying to achive. thanks a lot in advance http:// http://
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails joining concrete beams and floors-how-does.jpg   joining concrete beams and floors-how-should-.jpg  

  2. #2
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    In time, you'll find out that plaster (or any other non core layers) is better to model them sepparately better&more_accurate live details ans more accurate material quantities. You can model that plaster as a separate floor or as a ceilling. I wished Revit behave better with plaster conditions, even wished so the beams also receive plaster or EIFS automatically.

    The beam-wall workflow can give you plaster at the bottom and lateral sides with just one tipe of composite wall(one instance). But for analytical model don't know if it is good practice. You have to test the output in a Robot like program.
    Last edited by gaby424; January 26th, 2013 at 09:24 AM.

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    Hi Gaby
    Thanks a lot for your answer.
    I can accept the workflow to model them separate as you suggested. so i modeled concrete columns using structural columns command.
    then added concrete beams. I then modeled the concrete floor as it would be build just inside the area surrounded by the beams.And i modeled another floor on top of that representing substrate and finishing materials.
    i also added architectural columns around concrete columns so it perfectly connected the plaster on the walls around the columns.
    So far so good.
    if i understand you correctly you suggest that i model another floor underneath the concrete one to represent the plaster layer right and also another wall to cover the side of the beam, right?
    if so how do i cover the area underneath the concrete beam? should i model another floor for that plaster layer?
    another question would be when modeling these one layer floors or walls to use as plaster layer or any non-core layer,i cant get rid of the core layers function in the editor so it skips the priorities of the materials as a core layer always cuts through another layer when joined, am i right? if so would this create another problem later down the process?

    Thanks a lot in advance

  4. #4
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    the one layer finish will be core, indeed. If it`s a floor you contro11 the covered area by drawing a precise sketch. You will join that floor only with a wall plaster. Not with the beam. You don`t need to (if the sketch is avoiding the beam) If it`s a wall finish, you have options to not allow joining , and manualy dragging the ends. After manually draging the ends, you can still join that thing with another elemnt with a simmilar material, but this time this join will behave different (not autoexpanding) because that wall finish is stii not allowed to join.

    There are a lot of conditions in real world. I prefer model more and more if I had to go with the project in a detalied phase. So my workflow varies by project. There are clients that only need Permit projects. For them I prefer the one sandwich wall because I know they will not pay me for materials lists, or details.

    About plaster thing under floor. I prefer not to see beams, so I use gip ceillings. If you need plaster under the beams there are some workarounds. Some I`ve tested:
    -one layer floor and wall for finshes (the most obvious)
    -inplace family for custom conditions
    -plaster already inside beam family with instance parameters for on and off and for adjusting the covered area (not worth the mess)
    -generic model line based families so you can have a U shape plaster for beams (generic model can join with another things) (harder to place and and to adapt to all corner conditions)
    Last edited by gaby424; January 26th, 2013 at 02:25 PM.

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    thank you very much for your answers. i will try these methods and see which ones suit our needs better and try to report how it turns out so anyone can benefit from it. It seems the weak point of Revit is that it can't do everything in a streamlined way just yet a so any workflow example we can find is important for beginners like me..

    again thanks a lot for you help

    cheers

  6. #6
    Moderator gaby424's Avatar
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    well, there is a shortcut with "walls like beams". They don`t have t0 be structural. Don`t know what happens with analitical part. Also disn`t tested how accurate is the plaster quantity. See the movie. This is the laziest way

    2013-01-26_1709 - gaby424's library

    p.s. if you want the floor plaster to join the wall(beam) plaster than you have to sketch athe floor plaster as a separate floor and the sketch to avoid the wall(beam) (i think..you have to test).
    Now the plaster don`t joins because the plaster in wall is inside Core and it needs to be there, and the plaster in floor is out of core, and it needs to be there.
    Last edited by gaby424; January 26th, 2013 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Autodesk Tamas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumrah View Post
    i also tried using create parts tool to adjust each layer accordingly. however after creating the parts revit doesn't allow joining these part to anything else so this approach leaves a line between the concrete floor and beam when there shouldn't be.
    Have you tried the Merge Parts command on the adjacent parts that you need to merge? If they have the same material and touch, you should be able to merge them cleanly.

    Tamas

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