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Thread: Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?

  1. #21
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    "Mark Twain"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clogboy View Post
    Network doesn't like this forum's file upload function
    I saved the groups (yes another thing for you to comment on) to individual files and uploaded them. This should work...

    http://wtrns.fr/lA_bgJXrl8Uw8J

    This contains a lot of the relevant details.


    @MDR about the 'previous CAD' comment: that was before BIM. And do we really want to return to that?

    @TRF I cant even be bothered to remember all the issues. Dont make me remind them plz!
    Please no, don't get me wrong!
    About the comment: I'm not stating that it's "wrong" to make separate pitches. I think (and provided a few examples) that sometimes you cannot escape that solution.
    BUT: the question for me is: is it worth the hassle? And I'm not talking about the modelling, I'm talking about the coordination issues this solution gives. Now you need to monitor multiple roofs. If it's a dealbreaker: then go for it. I'm just asking: is this annoyence because you could, and now you can't, or is it really a dealbreaker?

    BUT: since I now now after reviewing your project file that you are also dutch (I know, I could have also figured this out by simply reading your personal info, sorry about that!), I also know that this is a dealbreaker if you want to have your roofs manufactured out of Revit.

    About the project:
    I think there's some mixup about what needs to be fixed here. The OP is from a Dutch guy too, and you're looking at it wrong (Clogboy, correct me if I'm wrong here):
    The overhang which are now created by fascia's aren't the problem. The fascia's dakrand and windveer are actually correct because these are a sort of wooden outlining of the roof with ceramic tiles placed on top of it.
    These are separate wooden constructions and have to be modelled seperately.

    I still think the problems lie in what I stated before:
    1. I attached a sample file with a single-roof solution. In section 1 you will see some dimensions. The important part is that the crossing reflines on the outside of the wall en interior side of the roof has an offset to Level 2 (in this case 200mm). This offset needs to be the same for both roof segments with different slope angles. This can only be done by manually adjusting the offset of the boundary lines of the steeper roof. This off course, is a huge pain.
    2. In Plan View Level 2 I placed two refplanes on the interior corner of the roof. These should be exactly above each other. This only is the case when having equal roof pitches or when creating two seperate roofs.

    Now we can go into a lengthy discussion whether this is necessary, but trust me: if you want a Dutch timber factory to make this from a Revit model it is necessary... I don't think the whole roof-construction-business will turn around just to make it work from Revit.
    Like I said, I too have been trying to get this fixed in a single roof soluction but it just doesn't work.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by mdradvies; April 8th, 2011 at 11:03 PM. Reason: also some feedback

  2. #22
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Well, where it gets paramount for me is here:

    I downloaded the file, but i cant tell if the way the ridges come together are on purpose or not, because they dont even line up with one another. Again, im not criticizing, im asking for clarification: Is this really how it is supposed to be? It could be that i am just not familiar with the style in other parts of the world. If it is, ill have to think over how i would best model this.

    If its not how its supposed to be, then it gets to the root of why i dont believe in modeling roofs this way.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?-roofs2.png   Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?-roofs1.png  

  3. #23
    Moderator mark b's Avatar
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    Why 1 roof ? Dose it really matter, when 2 seperate roofs work and done in minutes(with no opening or void cuts) and if you don't work in revit you would not know the difference.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?-2.jpg   Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?-1.jpg   Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?-4.jpg   Roof with different sloping - one roof or individual surfaces?-3.jpg  

  4. #24
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I am surmising the question came about, because the OP stated in another thread that Parts (new 2012 feature) work fine on roofs, when i stated they ONLY work on single planar roofs... Meaning they will only work on roofs if they are built one face at a time.

    For me, i dont care if its one or thirty, IF they are all done correctly. But, the reason obviously prefer the workflor of one over thirty, is one of repeated efforts: When there are more, they dont get updated accordingly, and you end up with graphical AND constructable inaccuracies everywhere, like in the images i posted. If you can get it right, and dont mind editing 8 roofs to get the point across? More power to you. More often than not, i see people mess it up, and spend exponentially more time, when its more than one roof... And for what? More accuracy in one spot to sacrifice it somewhere else? Its still wrong, someplace. If its going to be wrong, might as well be wrong only once, then wrong with fifteen seperate elements.

    Besides, having PARTS on pieces that are wrong isnt much of a help either?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Well, where it gets paramount for me is here:

    I downloaded the file, but i cant tell if the way the ridges come together are on purpose or not, because they dont even line up with one another. Again, im not criticizing, im asking for clarification: Is this really how it is supposed to be? It could be that i am just not familiar with the style in other parts of the world. If it is, ill have to think over how i would best model this.

    If its not how its supposed to be, then it gets to the root of why i dont believe in modeling roofs this way.
    Aaron, this is definately NOT how it's supposed to be. The ridges should be aligned properly (and I agree, this is spot on the reason why one should be very reluctant to incorporate this workflow).

    The problem however remains: the joins of two roof parts with different slope angles aren't vertical and the intersection point between inside refplane of the roof and exterior of the wall doesn't lie on the same place. The last one can be solved by manually fiddling with the offset from wall parameter, but that's very time consuming (or requires some knowledge of basic mathmetics).
    There are some other minor problems: the cutoff at the bottom of the roof isn't the same (the roof with the highest slope angle defines the height of the cutoff leaving the other ridge to be cut too high) and the placement of the gutter in relation to the base of the roof plate isn't consistent.

    Once again: you can argue if this is really a problem, but if you want to go to production from inside Revit (like the OP stated) these things are in fact problematic. At least they are for the Dutch construction methods...

    But hey, you'll make my day with a nifty solution to this problem!

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