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Thread: What's so "special" about "Specialty Equipment" ?

  1. #1
    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    What's so "special" about "Specialty Equipment" ?

    Printer = Electrical Equipment
    Phone = Telephone Devices
    ...all makes sense so far.

    Electric Oven = Electrical Equipment
    Vending Machine = Electrical Equipment
    ...but what about a plumbed (self-cleaning) Oven or Vending Machine? Technically they're both Plumbing Fixture and Electrical Equipment!?!

    So do I put them in Specialty Equipment? They're not that "special" (whereas our flight simulator is!) but it seems to be the only category worthy....


    It gets better...

    Okay so a Smart Board goes on "Electrical Equipment" but what about a regular Whiteboard? And what about a boring old wastepaper bin? I'd put that kind of fluffy-stuff on "Entourage" if it was purely for visualization purposes - but this is for equipment loadings (schedules & sheets) and I need Shared Parameters in my families.... and I'm loathed to put stuff on generic models.... so is a bin "special" enough to be "Specialty Equipment"?!? I guess it might just have to be...


    Other items I've so far yet to assign to a Revit category:
    • Key Safe
    • Leaflet Rack
    • Coat Hooks
    • Acoustic Ceiling Raft
    • ...etc


    Yes, I know many of you are going to say "You know revit Categories suck for FM-esque scheduling - you should use Master/Uni-Format/Class/etc/etc" and I totally appreciate that - and would sort/filter my schedules using the "deeper" parameters on offer - but from an operator/cliff-face perspective, it would be nice to have things grouped together nicely.

    Thoughts?
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    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    For me the decision to go with a Generic Model or Specialty Equipment is how I want it to cut, or not cut. GM's acknowledge cut planes, SE don't. If I need further control I use subcategories of the above.
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    Senior Member chris.macko's Avatar
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    Some of those things like whiteboards and garbage cans can be considered furniture too, especially if it's something that will be needed for space planning. Electrical equipment to me is only the equipment that the electrical engineer is actually designing and specifying. Same with plumbing equipment. I use specialty equipment a lot for owner/process equipment like milling machines, paint booths, industrial ovens, etc. Residential appliances are somewhere between furniture and equipment, but specialty equipment probably fits better. I agree there could be a few more categories in there, but you can also make subcategories for certain types of equipment. I jsut wish we had the option to make more of them cuttable so I wouldn't need to resort to generic models. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure it varies depending on the types of projects you do as well.

  4. #4
    Mr. Revit OpEd
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    Fwiw, don't use Specialty Equipment (SE) for Revit MEP (RME) elements that you expect to behave "normally". RME treats SE category as architectural and not as an equal to other categories in their realm. There is a lot of data and telecom equipment out there that has been modeled in the SE category that has to be fixed before they can even be used in a project.
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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.macko View Post
    I use specialty equipment a lot for owner/process equipment like milling machines, paint booths, industrial ovens, etc. Residential appliances are somewhere between furniture and equipment, but specialty equipment probably fits better.
    So I don't/can't follow that logic - an electrical item is, well an electrical item - it hurts my brain somewhat to even have lighting devices (and fixtures) as a seperate category sometimes given that fact - but I like that there is the distinction (same goes for nurse call/security/etc devices) - and would like to ask why you don't use a category purely because of discipline distinction - it's not like Structure don't/can't use walls & floors - and when you factor that we've independant VG control of an architectural model against an MEP one, it doesn't seem to make sense why you wouldn't use the "correct" category then simply hide your "placement families" (if you use such a thing) until the time comes to hide them when MEP take ownership...


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Stafford View Post
    There is a lot of data and telecom equipment out there that has been modeled in the SE category that has to be fixed before they can even be used in a project.
    Why would anyone do that when we have Telephone Devices and Data Devices?!? That's like the total opposite to my issue where we don't have a category.

    I, by the way, use said categories to model, er, telephone and data devices... in RAC... should I not? No one's ever complained before.





    PS: About the whole cuttable GM thing - at present, this is not an issue - but one I'm all too readily aware of - but a lot of our "loading" is purely generic box geometry (for counts, overall dims and additional information) so not be able to take a section cut isn't an issue (and the PMs wouldn't want a truncated section of a telephone in the drawing anyways - irregardless of overly detailed and cool that would make them)
    Last edited by snowyweston; December 21st, 2012 at 06:04 PM.

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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    This issue of "cuttable" or non "cuttable" in regards to categories can be very annoying. I am making a series of families for wheelchair lifts and residential elevators, using Revit 2012. According to the Omniclass list and other classifications, an elevator should be "Specialty Equipment". Yes, but if you make a section thru a family of the Specialty Equipment category, the section view is ignored: the section looks like an elevation. Therefore, if I make a family of an elevator or lift, I am forced to choose between having my family be in the "correct" category showing bad sections, or having my family be in the "wrong" category showing good sections. Why can't I have both? "correct" category and good sections? I think a section is important for an elevator family. I tried different combinations of nesting and sharing to get both benefits, but I could not get both. I don't want to put symbolic lines to represent the section view. I would rather have the lifts be in the Generic Models category with good sections rather than being in the Specialty Equipment category with useless sections; but I would like to know your opinions. What do you think? What would you rather have?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What's so "special" about "Specialty Equipment" ?-4-16-2013-8-39-15-pm.jpg  
    Last edited by Alfredo Medina; April 17th, 2013 at 01:21 AM. Reason: image
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    If you nest a generic model family in a specialty equipment one it should cut AND take on the right category, right?

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    Forum Co-Founder iru69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyweston View Post
    So I don't/can't follow that logic - an electrical item is, well an electrical item...
    So you treat anything in an entire building that uses electricity as an "electrical" item? I think that's a fairly unique position to take on it (not that there's anything wrong with that!). I think the more common thinking on it is as Chris suggests.

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    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iru69 View Post
    So you treat anything in an entire building that uses electricity as an "electrical" item?
    I'd need to re-read what I wrote, but I don't think that's what I was saying - and anyway, we've a lot of other categories to make the selection process easier (fire/data/communication/telephone/security etc) - this is just a flying visit - I'll come back later to see what new thoughts I have on it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfredo Medina View Post
    This issue of "cuttable" or non "cuttable" in regards to categories can be very annoying. ... What do you think? What would you rather have?
    I'm facing the exact same problems. I escalator and elevator families that hardly belong in GM, contain mostly electrical components and so on.
    If anything, I would avoid GM for anything that should be passed through IFC. GM gets a rename to "object" and have to be handle as a special case that falls out from the rest of the catogories. (So at least in Solibri, my checks aren't as logical to perform as they should). And when I come to think of it, this must be part of the reason, why categories are fixed (apart from the database relations) - they need to be able to be translated.

    If Revit is your endgame, use whatever category that makes pretty graphics + you can handle in schedules. If BIM is your endgame, use the closest category, make do with what you can and send a nice suggestion to the factory to treat all categories as equals. I would suggest the latter.

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