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Thread: Nested family swap some parameters disassociate

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    jmk
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    Nested family swap some parameters disassociate

    I'm building a family that has a nested, shared, family controlled by a family Type parameter. I know that the parameters need to have the same name and type for the linked parameter to hold in a switch. For some reason, when I switch this family, a length parameter disconnects. I can see this occur in the family or project, but never get an error message. The second family is created from a copy of the first - some geometry was changed, but parameters weren't. There are over a dozen parameters that are linked, as well as other families and their parameters, but this one length parameter is the only one that breaks.

    Is there a way to troubleshoot the association? Or is recreating the parameter (and the formulas that use it) my best bet for resolving the issue?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nested family swap some parameters disassociate-family-type-disassociating.png  

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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    Probably at some point the Backbend parameter in the _08-FRAME-Double Egress was changed (maybe it was renamed, spelled in a different way, or changed from type to instance), then that family was loaded into the host, braking the association. Even if the Backbend parameter is restored to be exactly as it was, and the family is loaded again into the host, the association will remain broken. If you associate it again, it should remain associated. It's difficult to say more about this without seeing the files, of course.
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    jmk
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    I didn't know that the change from instance to type could cause that issue.

    The Backbend parameter was a type parameter that was converted to instance and linked into the host family. However the Double egress frame was a save as version of that first frame, after all the parameters were set and linked, so I didn't expect to have any issue with the connections. Reconnecting the parameter doesn't work - if it did I wouldn't have bothered asking the question.

    I've attached a stripped down version of the file, because I'm curious if there is a way to fix or prevent the issue, but it looks like I'll need to create a new parameter that is instance from the start, and replace the formulas to address the issue.
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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    The problem is that you have parameters by almost the same name, both in the nested families and in the host family, with the only difference being the initial letter in uppercase or lowercase, such as Backbend and backbend. This does not work well for making associations of parameters in nested families to parameters in the host.

    The solution is: open both _08-Frame-Double Rabbet and _08-Frame-Double Egress, and rename Backend to something completely different, let's say, "X". Load both families again into the host, and select the family that is visible in the view, and associate its "X" parameter to the local Frame Backend parameter. Now switch the type with the family type parameter. The parameter X will remain associated to both families all the time.

    Even though, supposedly for Revit a parameter named "america" is different from another parameter named "America", Revit can get confused with this when we make associations between parameters of nested families and parameters in a host family. For example, "Family1" has three parameters called x, y, z. And "Family2" has three parameters called x, y, Z. If both Family1 and Family2 are nested into a host and made part of a family type label, if you associate x,y,z of Family1 to local parameters in the host, when you switch the type to Family2, notice that Revit assigns the value of z to the uppercase Z of Family2 (!) even though it should not because those two parameters are not supposed to be equivalent.
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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Huh? I have hundreds of families where the parameters in the nested family and parent family ARE in fact IDENTICAL. Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make anything unstable.

    Mine all work 100% of the time.

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    Member Bjorn_K's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that the most stable connection here is the very same Shared Parameter because the association is on GUID level? Is it name based instead?

    Never had any trouble with setting up a first element Family, including all the needed SPs and then Save As... as many times as needed.

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    jmk
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    Like Aaron, I have a number of families where parameters are the same between parent and child families. My "helper" parameters are always lowercase, and usually have at least one underscore, so I only have a few times when the parameter names are the same except for case. These families have several instances of that, but backbend is the only parameter where one of the pair is linked to the host AND swapped via a family type parameter. I tried renaming Backbend and it would stay linked, I also tried adding a new parameter named "Backbend", it would not stay linked. I renamed the helper parameter from "backbend" to "frame_backbend" and then "Backbend" stays linked.

    Since I had made changes to the original parameter, I wanted to test the issue. For a trial I made a basic family that had the same condition, a "Test" and a "test" and controlled them with a family type parameter. I linked "Test" to a dimension, and it disconnected if I swapped types.

    Bjorn - I don't need the information from the parameter in schedules or tags, so in my opinion it would be an inappropriate use of shared parameters, as well as making it more challenging to manage and confusing for users.

    My conclusion is that the problem was caused by having parameters that had exactly the same characters ("Backbend" and "backbend") and then trying to link them AND control them via a family type parameter (it worked fine until I tried to switch them). I will try to avoid having one family that has parameters named in that meaner in future, especially if I intend on switching the family with a a parameter.

    I'm glad there's a fix that doesn't involve me tracking down and replacing each formula the parameter is used in! Thanks Alfredo
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    Forum Co-Founder Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Huh? I have hundreds of families where the parameters in the nested family and parent family ARE in fact IDENTICAL. Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make anything unstable.
    Please read my post again. I did not say that the problem was in using identical names.

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