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Thread: Twiceroadsfools Doors for Download- Nested Panels/Frames, v4 (R2015)

  1. #241
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMcDowellJr View Post
    Re: training; I’ve had staff all but refuse to use the families because if their supposed complexity... and of course I no longer work there. It’s an issue. A bullshit issue
    I dont want to derail another thread, arguing about this sort of stuff, but: If the staff gets a CHOICE, i wouldnt work there, nor would i build them content. I have a large number of customers where they see the value, they adopt the doors, and the staff is all on board, and is THANKFUL. "All but refuses?" What the hell? I would have LITERALLY removed every other possible door from the entire company server. Oh, downloading it from the internet? I swear to god, id have IT block internet to their machine.

    Its interesting: I hear (behind my back) quite often that i have a bad attitude, or an a dictator, or that *i always have to have my way,* but its interesting: The folks (and firms) that DO adopt what im saying, are all wildly successful, and continue to kick ass.

    I cant help but wonder if one of the big problems in architecture is the big EGO's in architecture. I dont go to my doctor and say "well, i agree i need to get healthier, but im NOT TAKING THAT MEDICINE," and i dont go to the car mechanic and say "I need the car fixed but NO BUYING NEW PARTS." I mean... really.
    Zuefeldt Design likes this.

  2. #242
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLarson View Post
    I'm counting on them being complex to dissuade people from trying to monkey with them. As long as it works for the end user they're happy. Well as happy as people who have to accept change ever will be.
    I want them to be able to go from a Standard Pull, to a Continuously Vertical Pull, in an instant. And from a Standard Push, to a Panic Bar Push, in an instant. I dont want them to have to worry about Which Hardware Families work on which Door Families, and you need to change this selector, or that selector, or make a new hardware family type variation in the project browser and then go back to the parent door and select that new type in the hardware type selector, after having changed the push bar selector in the type properties of the new hardware type family... Because THAT workflow? They will eventually stop doing it (my opinion).

    If they want to change the Push, Pulls, Locks, Kick Plates, and Closers, its one parameter away, no Edit Type needed. Managing Hardware sets (especially with as much data as we have now) doesnt need to be a driver, it can be a driven thing. I can aggregate all the hardware *sets* based on what they have put in the model. And they can review it that way, too. They dont need to continually worry about *what was set 15r again?*

    But, the other way DOES work. As long as you and the users are happy with it. As i said before, just my personal opinion, i wouldnt recommend it.

  3. #243
    Forum Addict GMcDowellJr's Avatar
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    Couldn't agree more - I had IT block Revit City at the last office and people pulled out their pitchforks!

    I've tried to figure out how to go it alone but can't quite seem to get it to work for me. Until I do (if ever) it's office politics for $200.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    To be clear, I think we are ALL nesting ironmongery. It's just a matter of:

    Parent family > individual hardware pieces nested [my way]

    Parent family > hardware set family (nested) > individual hardware pieces (nested) [their way]

    The parameter label issue is what it is. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much to have family names showing in the schedules. It means needing a system for naming, sure. But that's not a bad thing.

    Sent from my Phablet. Please excuse typos... and bad ideas.

    Aaron Maller
    Director
    Parallax Team, Inc.
    I'm with you on your method, I'm setting up my own to work in the same fashion.

    I can't remember when I had the need to link label params, it may not have been on a door family at all, but it would have come in handy. I used a more roundabout way but thats another topic.

    Agreed btw on some peoples ego's... I have the conversation many times only for them to fail or come up against issues - also for another topic

  5. #245
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    For what it's worth. I've been working with nested door components for over 10yrs now too. What haven't I seen the staff attempt to break (Murph's Law is a good teacher, lol) or complain about. From that experience (IMVHO) I've come to prefer to have it live in the Parent Family too when hardware is desired to be shown; of which my preference is not to show as it gets Elevations more busy than it needs to be, & or more importantly is detached from the Hdw #'s & too complex to graphically represent all possible combinations for all the components. All in or nothing for me.

    If you're going to include graphic Hdw then to what extent because all the possible combinations from all the components & to the Code regulations & how will this schedule/coordinate in an automated way (like a Panel "F", Full Flush is true in the model & schedule)? The latch correlates to the Hdw #'s, so there is no current way to automate the truthfulness of the design intent & to code & to the hdw #'s. The designer may want a particular Hardware, but Code could dictate otherwise, so there's a disconnect to reality & the modeling. I'd be nice to tie these things (SP's) into a "Key Schedule" (Hdw #'s as Keys) if you were wanting to graphically show to coordinate/automate with the Hdw # schedule, or currently now possible with just PP's reading text data. Hopefully using SP's in Key Schedules will get picked up from the Revit Wish List site.

    Lately I've been dealing with Allegion's (door hdw consultant) Overtur App & with an accommodating web portal to collaborate/coordinate with Design & Code. Having SP's in a Key Schedule would do wonders in this environment to sync their parameters to our nested hdw families in a Revit Door hdw Key Schedule to graphically show truth in design just as we schedule nested panel & frame types.

  6. #246
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    I dont buy the *we cant show it at all unless we show it perfectly* argument, either. I can show a panic push bar on a door (fairly generically, but with some detail), and still have it point to the correct data. And in elevation, it does the service of saying *Are ytou sure you want this door manel, because you put a giant push bar across it.*

    And i also dont buy in to any of the 3rd party hardware apps. They are all trying to sell you stuff. ANY excel round tripper can tie in ANY hardware persons stuff, to my hardware, as long as they fill cells in correctly. Its not that complicated.

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