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Thread: Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?

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    Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?

    Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?

    I created a normal Assembled stair, nose 2cm, riser thickness 2cm, tread 2cm.
    Minimum tread depth 28 cm.

    Create the stair.... run can be any length. Now select it, toggle end with riser on and off, and see how the last tread has a length of 26 cm ( +2cm nose ) instead of the normal 28 cm ( +2cm nose)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-x2.png   Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-x1.png  

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    Member Alex Page's Avatar
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    If thats the case - I'd send it to AutoDesk Support...

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    Wondering if someone else can replicate the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Page View Post
    If thats the case - I'd send it to AutoDesk Support...

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    Moderator mark b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basilmir View Post
    Wondering if someone else can replicate the problem.
    Yeah its the nosing length.
    The nosing length actually increases the tread width x the nosing length.
    The nosing length determines the riser position. Stairs set out from the bottom at the front of the nosing (with or without the nosing). When you turn off the last riser Revit takes off the riser and also the "nosing length of the last tread".
    Try it without the nosing length and and all is good. Not ideal but its the way it is and definatly worth a whinge to ADSK though I am sure they already know the issue.
    I have tried to bluff it in the nosing profile with no joy. My theory is stairs should setout from the face of the riser and then the nosing length protrudes beyond that, but Revit stairs seem to setout the riser from the nosing.
    I hope this makes sense.

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    Moderator mark b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basilmir View Post
    Wondering if someone else can replicate the problem.
    OK I will try explain again how stairs work but with some pictures this time and this is not only in 2014.

    First of all I believe "Nosing Length" should be called "Riser Offset" as when you apply nosing length all you are doing is pushing the riser back from the front of the tread by that distance, and that distance is added to the tread and not taken into consideration in the calculation of the tread width parameter.
    This is correct as in the real world the tread width is what is "shown in plan view" and not the tread width + what is under the nosing.
    So in a sense how Revit does handle this with the last riser switch on or off is correct in maintaining the same width in plan view.

    Try in section view a short run of stairs finishing at a floor (set up some Ref lines to guage how things move), play with the nosing length and see how the front of the tread is fixed to the front face of the stringer and with "0" nosing the riser aligns with the front face of the stringer, now add nosing length and watch the risers move and the treads grow by the nosing length.
    This is all good "but" this pushes the last (top) riser beyond the end of the stringer by the riser width and the nosing length. Once again this is all good "but the stringer should also be extended to the back of the last riser as with how timber stairs are constructed.

    Revit has never been able to handle how timber stairs are constructed hear in OZ and this could be solved by giving us a parameter to extend the front bottom end and top end of the stringer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-nosing-length-2.jpg   Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-nosing-length-3.jpg   Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-nosing-length.jpg   Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-nosing-length-1.jpg  
    Last edited by mark b; May 19th, 2013 at 06:34 AM.
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    Member Barrie's Avatar
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    When I sketched stairs I would switch 'end with riser' off and add a final tread, 38mm for instance. That gave me a riser and nosing piece to finish on the apron of the landing. Component stairs don't allow independent control over the first and last tread. Convert it to sketch if that is what you're wanting.

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    Moderator mark b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrie View Post
    When I sketched stairs I would switch 'end with riser' off and add a final tread, 38mm for instance. That gave me a riser and nosing piece to finish on the apron of the landing. Component stairs don't allow independent control over the first and last tread. Convert it to sketch if that is what you're wanting.
    Nice workaround.
    Would like to see this automated in component stairs.
    Would also still like to extend the stringer at the top by 50mm to support (hook over) landing.
    Got a trick for extending the bottom stringer ?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-nosing-fix.jpg   Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-nosing-fix-1.jpg  
    Last edited by mark b; May 19th, 2013 at 11:57 PM.

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    Member Barrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark b View Post
    Got a trick for extending the bottom stringer ?
    Yeah, switch them off and model in place I only use the stringers during early design. Once I get to detail drawings I find it becomes very bespoke. Very hard for 'the factory' to account for so many variables in Revit stairs.

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    Member AHutchinson's Avatar
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    I also turn off my stringers, but instead of model in place, I use beams. Place an RP in plan, then name it, then go to a section, place the beam on that RP. After that you can just copy and paste the stringer beam anywhere. I use 6-7 sections while construction my stairs, but they turn out nicely. This helps to find out whether or not the stringers can actually cope if necessary too.

    See below:

    Revit 2014 - Component stair - If you don't end with riser the last tread is shorter?-capture.jpg
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    Member Barrie's Avatar
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    Nice method Adam. In your example they really are structural sections. Like that you can do analysis too.

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