View Poll Results: Worksets or Filters & View Templates?

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  • Worksets mainly

    0 0%
  • Filters & View Templates mainly

    16 61.54%
  • Combination of both

    10 38.46%
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Thread: Consensus on worksets vs. filters

  1. #1
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    Post Consensus on worksets vs. filters

    This is probably a primarily MEP-oriented question, but it really spans all disciplines:

    When it comes to organzing your model and views, how are people most utilizing these features?

    Is visibility contro11ed through worksets? If so, how many worksets? How far are they broken down?

    or

    Is visibility contro11ed through filters and view templates? I'm curious as an MEP designer especially, since Revit MEP forces us to use Systems so much these days.

    or

    Are you using a combination of worksets and filters? We're trying to decide how to move forward in developing our project templates, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Member kommunalka's Avatar
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    Revit Architecture User here, I use filters and view templates to determine visibility in almost all cases. Using worksets to directly control view and model visibility can have coordination issues when multiple users/ diciplines are using the same models/ links.
    Last edited by kommunalka; November 28th, 2012 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #3
    Member chris.macko's Avatar
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    I don't think worksets should be used for visibility control at all

  4. #4
    Member feio's Avatar
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    Worksets have a function that is not to control the visibility, they just have the visibility option to a user be able to control the worksets themselves.
    They should be left to worksharing management, and nothing more.
    Ree likes this.

  5. #5
    Ree
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    I started to use worksets for visibilty control and found it does not provide susbstantial benefits in fact it creates more havoc than it's worth. View templates and filters appear the way to go. This uses the vanilla aspect of categories sytems etc already built into Revit. Trial and error and lots of valued feedback from others have steered me away from worksets for controlling visibility of devices and or systems. I work with the "e" in MEP
    Cheers

  6. #6
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    OK, I have to really disagree with many of these answers. I have have an Architectural background of over 15 yrs,(3yrs REVIT Arch) and have now been using REVIT MEP for purposes of BIM coordination with contractors during conctruction.(about addtl 2 yrs) worksets are for worksharing primarily in design however they are very useful in MEP coordination. If I have a system filter it does not always carry fittings, valves and equipment and other parts of that system. If I put the whole system in a workset, then this can be easily identified and hidden or shown when exporting for a Navisworks model. It may seem cumbersome to set this up but it has been extremely helpful to use a workset of Return ductwork or mpipe vs supply or even further to chilled water supply vs hot water supply.

  7. #7
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum, entasis. And certainly, it is an opinion thing, and you are welcome to disagree. But it doesnt change the fact that Worksets werent designed with Visibility in mind, and they dont do a great job at it. The fact that they handle one situation better than Filters certainly doesnt mean its the right tool for the job, it means you found one thing Worksets do better. (shrug).

    Everyone here is taught that every workset is set to Global Setting (visible) in every view template, end of story. If they want to turn something off globally in all views, we remind them of the reasons to not use Worksets:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beck Training

    Every Item has a Workset, AND a Category. If youre trying to turn off a category, using the Category will always work. Using the Workset will only work if everyones Workset discipline was perfect (introduces risk)

    Every Link has a Workset, AND an RVT:Link Designation. If youre trying to turn off a LINKED MODEL, do it with the VG: RVT Link dialogue. That will ALWAYS
    turn off ONLY the Link. Using the Link WORKSET only works if everyones Workset Discipline was perfect. (Introduces risk)

    Schedules cannot Filter by Workset. To Filter what you are trying in a View (Floor Plan) and a Schedule, you will need a Filter by Parameter anyway. Now
    you need a Workset Visibility AND a Filter, when you can do it all with just a Filter. (introduces more work, and risk)

    Items on invisible Worksets still exist. Rooms will be bound by walls on invisible Worksets. Walls will join with other walls on other worksets. Room
    Area calculations will be incorrect. (introduces more work, and risk). For this reason, Worksets are NOT a Design Option Tool, nor a Phasing Tool. We have
    correct Tools for those.

    Levels and Grids. If there are too many Levels and Grids that you want to remove from most views, you could use a Workset or a Filter. VG: Workset cannot
    be part of a view template. So you must turn it off in all views, or on in all views, and manually edit the remaining views. (introduces waste). Filters can
    go in View Templates, AND can allow you variations in selection very easily, where Worksets can not. (faster, more repeatable, less risk). They also mean no
    chance for items on the "off workset.).

    Graphical Changes. Graytone, Halftone, Dashed Lines, heavier lines, trasparency, etc. VG: Worksets can not do any of these. They can ONLY turn
    on/off. using correct object control (Category, Filter, RVT Link, View Range, Phase, etc) can alter things graphically. If you need NIC work dashed, or FOR
    REFERENCE items transparent, etc. Filters can do this, Worksets cannot.

    Workset Purpose: Workset VISIBILITY is not the same as Workset LOADING. Loading is done through the Workset Dialogue (or at File > Open). This means
    your Computer is not processing the items (model is faster), but the items still exist. Workset VISIBILITY means the Computer is processing the elements, but
    they may or may not be visible. They ARE there, however. (There is almost no benefit to this).
    MEP users have a different plight, because of systems. Still, Project parameters CAN be added to fittings, accessories, pipes, ducts, equipment, etc. I dont work for an MEP firm, so i use MEP less than a lot of people. But with the added Flexibility of being able to include objects in multiple filters (but not multiple worksets) im pretty sure even in an MEP firm i would stand by not using Worksets for Visibility. Sure, my way takes a little longer, but it also does a much better job.
    Ree likes this.

  8. #8
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    What is the correct way, in your experience, to link in a site model and have it turned off in all views by default, including newly created views?

  9. #9
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    View Templates. View Templates can also be told to *apply automatically when a new view of X type is created.* So if you dont want to see it ever, when you link it in, you run through your view templates and turn it off under VG: RVT Link in the VT's, and its off for good.

    And i already know what youre going to say: That takes longer than clicking "invisible by default" in Worksets, and you are right. But it also comes with the CERTAINTY that parts of the model arent accidentally missing because theyre on the wrong workset. Thats easily worth the extra 4 minutes it takes to turn off the link in every VT we have (and i have more than most people, meaning its faster for most).

    Especially considering 2013 means you no longer have to re-apply the VT's, since theyre linked.
    Ree likes this.

  10. #10
    Administrator Gordon Price's Avatar
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    I have one, and only one, situation in which I will tolerate worksets used for visibility management. When a consultant is new to Revit, and I have no choice but to accept that they will not be able to implement Filter/View Template based visibility control. In that situation, those architectural elements that need visibility control in consultant files will be managed by work set, but nothing more. All architectural visibility is by Filter/VT at all times, no exceptions.
    Also worth noting that this is for Revit elements. DWGs are a different condition, in that ALL DWGs need to have memory footprint management, i.e. Worksets. Because the Workset environment must be fairly granular for DWGs, I often use worksets to control the visibility of those links as well, because ideological purity does need to take a back seat to efficiency. I have seriously considered adding Entourage to DWGs in this respect, but that muddies the water perhaps too much. For a team of experienced users, and a project with extensive presentation/entourage needs I would go this route. For anything less than a Revit Dream Team, simplified rules and reduced confusion/increased chance of successful outcome wins.

    Gordon
    Ree likes this.

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