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Thread: Fire Rating Plans

  1. #41
    Member MrBIMtastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBZ View Post
    Oh I bet I can get them visible in RCP!!!
    Send one and I'll try
    Sending now.

  2. #42
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    We have wrestled with this issue of representing rated walls for years. If you go with using filters and wall cut patterns overrides, one issue you run into is the pattern breaks at door openings. Would it be too crazy to set up a ceiling plan with only rated walls visible, with their appropriate cut pattern based on rating using filters - and them lay this ceiling plan directly on directly top of the building code floor plan on a drawing sheet? In this approach you would see you door swings but the rated wall pattern would carry through the door. I also understand what others have said about wall patterns not showing up well at 1/16" scale. Using filters you could, as another approach, have different cut wall line style over rides, based on rating. If the line style overrides are given a super think line thickness you can make the wall appear to be hactched and much thicker than it actually is.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdagen View Post
    We have wrestled with this issue of representing rated walls for years. If you go with using filters and wall cut patterns overrides, one issue you run into is the pattern breaks at door openings. Would it be too crazy to set up a ceiling plan with only rated walls visible, with their appropriate cut pattern based on rating using filters - and them lay this ceiling plan directly on directly top of the building code floor plan on a drawing sheet? In this approach you would see you door swings but the rated wall pattern would carry through the door. I also understand what others have said about wall patterns not showing up well at 1/16" scale. Using filters you could, as another approach, have different cut wall line style over rides, based on rating. If the line style overrides are given a super think line thickness you can make the wall appear to be hactched and much thicker than it actually is.
    I'm not sure why you want the pattern running through the door opening. The door has it's own rating and is separate from the wall. We are developing a FLS sheet that will allow us to see the door rating in the wall so the QC team can quickly see if the team has used the correctly rated door in the wall. Without going back and forth to the door schedule, this is the fastest way to check these.

  4. #44
    Administrator Gordon Price's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebressman View Post
    I'm not sure why you want the pattern running through the door opening. The door has it's own rating and is separate from the wall.
    True, but the rating of the door is what is required to make the overall enclosure, and plan checkers want the easiest check possible, an indication of extent of enclosure, because that is the code requirement they are verifying. Rarely have I seen rating of the door wanted, and never any info about penetrations, just the extent of 1HR enclosure, etc.
    Sadly, we really are still in a world of three different flavors of Life Safety plans. One version is for the plan checker, which is simplistic and basically shows overarching intent. Another is for the Contractor, and shows detailed intent at the level of independent systems. And one for the team, to ensure that in fact all the walls, doors, penetrations and the rest actually are what they need to be. To my mind, Revit does the last well, the second passably, and the first poorly and then only with more effort than should be required. But since you can't get a permit without appeasing the plan checker, we have to spend the time.

    Gordon
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  5. #45
    Member BCERBIMMan's Avatar
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    I have struggled with this for quite some time now. I thought the pattern in the wall was the best option but different firms use different symbology. This would be carried through from the architectural model which means far less work for us as an MEPFP firm. However, the main Fire Protection engineer does not want to rely on the architect and would rather place detail lines on the views for the rating. It's a matter of communication, he says, this is where the rated walls should be, the architect complies and we still use their patterns. The same person just wants to use "dumb" filled regions for his zones as well. To me this is counter intuitive of using Revit.

    What are other MEP firms doing about this?

  6. #46
    Revit Maestro Dimitri Harvalias's Avatar
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    I'm of the school that doesn't see the need for the line to run through the door opening in most cases. If it is needed why not create a 'line' door that you can nest into your door families. Make sure it's not shared so it doesn't schedule. That family would flex with the width of the door and contain only a symbolic line that is assigned to a separate sub category for display control. The view filter would change the color based on the fire rating property and that color would match the wall fill color.
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  7. #47
    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    I've been playing with a nested "wall-fill" family in my doors of late.

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    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    Im doing something similar, Snowy. They arent in the Doors yet (not in the uploaded ones) but they will be shortly. HOWEVER, weve also decided the ratings of the doors will be the doors minutes rating, with different hatches than the walls. The door isnt the same rating as the wall. JM2C

  9. #49
    Moderator snowyweston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    Im doing something similar, Snowy.
    Modelled or graphical? I can't decide which I prefer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twiceroadsfool View Post
    The door isnt the same rating as the wall.
    Coming from a sector where they always where it came as a bit of shock to discover this is the case with some of my current project types - so I was quite chuffed (smug?) that I'd always treated them (in Revit) seperately and let all the debates in the past about the graphical appearance / unbroken-line-of-wall (thankfully) pass me by.
    Last edited by snowyweston; June 11th, 2013 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #50
    Forum Co-Founder Twiceroadsfool's Avatar
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    It might be because its the end of the day here and im fried, or it could be a terminology thing... But i have no idea what you just said. hehehehe.

    In ours, the final solution will be:

    There will be a modeled solid in the Door families, that basically is the exact thickness of the wall. It will be a specific subcategory, and will only show in life safety plans. Doors will have a Filter that reads their rating, and those *solids* will show the appropriate graphical Cut Pattern, based on the Filters (and the cut pattern will be different for a 45 minute door than for a 1 hour wall, and so on).

    In all other plans, that subcat wont show up, hence the door openings will look correct.

    its a solution that certainly wont work for everyone, as evidenced by this thread going on for 5 pages. But, QC and i agree that the wall and the door have seperate ratings. And where we have run in to issues because people are concerned about the wall ABOVE the door, they will move the view range above the door, and call it a day. Users Choice, lol.

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